Resource Guarding

[mel]

i,m totally stuck here

Got Bobby as per this thread

....viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15574

Got another rescue dog 9 months old on feb 14 th this year , they get on most of the time but when the new dog gets it into his head that he is second best (best i can describe it ) he attacks my dog .

Always have to feed separately and no toys or bones in the house or the newer dog kicks off even if they have one each

It can be as little as my wife petting the other dog first or my dog going in his cage .

Its bad ....my son got bit today separating yet another fight over nothing , they don,t fight with me around they know not too but my wife can not control them if it kicks off and my older son who got bit does not know his arse from his elbow with dogs but at 21 they know all the answers

Both dogs are good on there own .

Its crunch time , both dogs have latched on to me , and i really do not want to let the new dog go but its getting to the stage that mrs mel can not separate a fight like i can and i can not always be there .

[Feline]

Not an easy fix this one- you basically need to remove all the resources if at all possible. Means no unsupervised toys or bones. Feed in separate rooms. Have at least 1 more bed than you have dog so they have plenty of choice.
Don't allow them to compete for your attention. Call each one to you separately for fuss, rather than let them demand it.
Don't allow them to go through a doorway ahead of you. Make them wait for permission to eat etc.
After a while when you are well and truly in charge of the pack you should be able to relax this.

What specifically are they guarding?

[CFC]

What Feline said - don't let them be in a position where they can compete for resources.
You and the missus both have to be in control and taking them training will help this. Currently he is basically ignoring her. Is she willing to take one of them to training, preferably the naughty one? You know it will work because they don't do it when you are there. Therefore they have to learn they cannot do it when anyone is there. The other option is to separate them when you are not there but that is a pain in the rear end as a way of life, you could use it while you are training out the behaviour though. Another option for your wife to try is to have naughty dog on a lead, then create a situation where he would want to have a go at Bobby because she can then immediately control the behaviour which will give him the message that nobody is going to tolerate the nonsense. Eventually he will learn if she is around he cannot start on it.

Also I suggest your wife starts to use a spray bottle of water in the face to immediately nip in the bud any 'funny looks' he casts before he kicks off. Some people shake cans of stones, really it's anything that will grab their attention successfully.

None of this is a quick fix and it's going to depend if your wife feels up to it or not.

Love terriers but they can be such damn hard work.

[mel]

Hi Lara .....was hoping you would reply

What Lester seems to guard ( what the fights are about ) are stupid , it comes out of the blue , but attention is the latest .

Mrs mel petted bobby first to say good night , then Lester .....and he attacked Bobby who was a asleep , coffee table over and glasses smashed , they was fine untill i left the room for 30 seconds they wont fight in front of me , i put a stop to it with a bollocking ( nothing physical of course )

Will explain more tomoz if that is ok , Mrs Mel had Lester booked in back at the dogs home tomoz before 9.30 but i,m not ready to give in yet he is a lovely dog ..just this problem to get over but its a big one one is going to get hurt if its not sorted

[Feline]

Since the problem is with Mrs Mel not so much with you, you need to get Mrs Mel doing more of the things that reinforce her status. I would get her being the only person who feeds them for now, and they have to sit and wait patiently for permission (from her) to start eating. It's also helpful if she could do some other helpful things, such as train them never to rush ahead of her through doors and up stairs. They basically both need demoting to the lowest of the low, and to never get attention unless it is on human terms and initiated by a human.

Have a total ban on dogs being on human furniture or beds, and don't let them sleep in your room (this elevates their status).
Try and wear them out with super-long walks if you can- they won't be lairy at each other if they are knackered with 4 legs in the air.

If you see any positive interactions between them then praise and treats to reward it. The issues you are describing are fixable, not too ingrained as behaviours yet. Don't be afraid to crate them separately and make them earn time outside the crate. Try not to assume one dog is to blame- there might be subtle body language signals going on between them that us humans are no perceptive enough to notice.

There are some good dog behaviour people around (try to get someone based on recommendation as the whole area is a bit of a minefield with completely unqualified people able to set themselves up and advertise). If you can get someone to come in and watch the dynamics in the house with all family members then they would be able to give you much more specific advice. I am not an expert.

[torma13]

Hi Mel,
I'm sorry to hear that things are going a bit wrong at the moment with the 2 dogs.
Am I correct that Lester was castrated when you got him, if so that was too young for even a chi/jrt cross. I've seen it before and this accompanying change of behaviour when 'normally' puberty would be happening. We had similar issues with 'Puppy' who was done at 9 months. I was (or should I say Puppy) was twice lucky ( we were his 4th home, he was 15 months old) . Firstly I'd had more impossible rescues than this little bugger had had decent meals and secondly he was living with and trying to out boss Uncle Patchy who had a serious GRRRRR and he meant it!
He then turned his attentions to Sascha who at the time was not a lot smaller but had just been speyed. I won't say what happened but they only playfight now, every night after tea for 5 minutes only, and that is it. End of.
I'm sorry but Mrs. Mel and your son have got to become BIG BOSS. The longer they cannot do this the more insecure a dog like Lester will be. Dogs are like kids they simply don't handle free rein well, it makes them feel outsiders, and will make them fight to get up the chain.
Dogs know when someone prefers another, they do not associate it with behaviour in my experience, and we all know that little dogs are big dogs in a small body.

If it makes you feel any better, or worse (I hope not) my worst experience of rescuing a dog was Uncle Patchy. We had had him for 4 days, I had my 3 year old granddaughter staying and we had just been shopping. As I got home my daughter rang me in deep distress about something. I was on the phone to her surrounded by the bags of shopping, my granddaughter went to the bags and Patch went for her, he tore her top lip and chin, she needed stitches. I have never felt so sick in my life. I rang the shelter, they gave me an appointment 4 days later, I rang the police who couldn't give a flying castlemaine and I lived with THAT dog and my granddaughter for a week, hating him, hating myself and beyond distraught. That was me, my granddaughter by the end of the week was helping to feed him and everything. He was probably the most trustworthy dog I ever had with kids, not that I ever did or nor do I ever do.

[torma13]

Forgot to say that we kept Patch for 9 years before pancreatic cancer took him.

[Feline]

Mel, dont get drawn into the 'correct age to neuter' argument. It is mostly not relevant here.

The behaviours you need to fix here are all dominant and pack order related, and haven't been going on very long as yet so therefore can be altered. The fact you are describing these things as not happening when you are there gives me hope. The only thing that needs to happen here is the elevation of Mrs Mel and your son in the pack order. Your dogs will be happier for it. You might not think on this occasion that your son deserves a promotion, but he has to have one anyway

[CFC]

Yes, just like working life, the idle and clueless get promoted too

[CFC]

Hi Mel,

I'm sorry but Mrs. Mel and your son have got to become BIG BOSS.

excellent point Gill